The Truth about Emotional Eating with Ali Shapiro

This is the transcript of an interview hosted on Ruth’s Feel Better. Live Free. podcast.

Ruth Soukup: Have you ever had the urge to eat your feelings? Of course you have. We all have. Emotional eating, especially for women, is a big deal. It’s also one of the biggest reasons women fail to be successful at losing weight and getting healthy, or at least one of the biggest reasons they claim. But what if there’s more to emotional eating than meets the eye?

Well, the answer is probably going to surprise you.

Because today we’re going to be chatting with Ali Shapiro, who is a holistic nutritionist Integrated health coach and the founder of truce with food.

Ali has multiple certifications in integrated nutrition and a master’s degree in organizational dynamics from the university of Pennsylvania, which essentially is an MBA in human behavior. And I think that makes her the perfect person to explain emotional eating in a way you’ve probably never thought about it before.

It’s pretty compelling stuff. So without further ado, I am so excited to be able to introduce you to today’s interview guest, Ali Shapiro. Ali, thank you so much for being here today. 

Ali Shapiro: Thank you so much for having me, Ruth. I’m excited to talk to you about this topic.

Ruth Soukup: So, but before we dive into all the things, tell me a little bit about you, who you are, what you do, and how you got to be doing what you are now.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, so I know that you’re obsessed with gut health. So I think we have that in common and About 20 years ago. I can’t even believe I’m saying it’s 20 years ago. I Discovered gut health and this was before functional medicine was bigger anything But I had been struggling with I had been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome and I had acne that I had tried antibiotics accutane I was I had a depression diagnosis et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And the list kept piling up. And I had gone to the time to a school called the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. This was back in 2006, almost 20 years ago. Wow. And had heard Dr. Mark Hyman speak. And I was like, wait, what? Like, maybe IBS isn’t a lifelong diagnosis. Maybe depression isn’t a lifelong diagnosis.

So long story short, went down to research rabbit hole and discovered that my gut had been compromised because I had cancer about 13 years prior. And so the chemotherapy definitely did a number on my gut. But I was so obsessed with weight loss which I know you’ve gone in and out of struggling yourself, that I was just like focused on losing weight because at the time I grew up in the 80s and 90s like you, you know, it’s like health equals thinness.

So I was just like, okay, for me to be healthy and not have cancer come back. But the problem was the more I tried to be consistent and stay on track, the more I struggled. So my emotional eating turned into binging and et cetera. So learning about food as medicine was this complete, like, like mindset shift.

And I, in applying that to healing myself, I lost 15 pounds as a side effect of that. And I was like, Oh my God, I healed my gut. I reversed IBS. I thought I had completely reversed my depression, but I had gotten to basically like zero, right? If I was like negative 50, I’d gotten to zero. And then, so I was like, Oh my God, everyone needs to know about this.

Cause at the time the information just wasn’t out there, but then I found after about like, the fourth session with my clients and they needed that information and they were like, okay, this feels great. But I found with them and me in times of extreme stress, I couldn’t keep this up. So in the cancer world, when we go for our scans to see if we’re still cancer free, it’s called skin anxiety season.

Right. And at that point I had really understood that sugar causes cancer, but then I would be binging on sugar from the time I scheduled the appointment. So I got my results, which. Thanks to our dysfunctional health care system can be six weeks or something And I decided to take a functional approach to falling off track and I was like, wait a second if my IBS and my acne and my depression for me were symptoms, not Diagnosed, but not root causes.

What if falling off track is a symptom of something else. And so I went to grad school at the University of Pennsylvania in Philly, where I live for 12 years and really came to the conclusion that Falling off track is not about willpower or discipline. It’s actually about safety. Because a lot, myself and so many of my clients were so highly accomplished, so driven.

I was like, wait, how can we have willpower and discipline in every area of our life except food? So that is how I created Truths with Food. And I’ve been doing it for 17 years full time now. So I feel like an OG, like, yeah. You are an OG. 

Ruth Soukup: Because you’re right. Nobody was talking about this. Stuff 17 years ago, like truly it’s, it is, I mean, it feels like still hardly anybody is talking about it.

It’s still not the norm to be talking about this kind of stuff, although it’s thankfully becoming more and more kind of mainstream, but I feel like we have a long way to go. Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s amazing. So let’s like, so let’s dive into this. Cause I’m absolutely fascinated by the emotional eating aspect of this and the how, like, so what, how do you define emotional eating?

Like, first of all, like what’s what is it? 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, that’s such a great question. I think the way that I approach it with my clients is like, when you’re eating out of alignment with your goals and I use that definition because it’s a flexible definition. So like we have Christmas coming up, we have the solstice coming, all this stuff is coming up.

So there are times where I’m going to want to eat cookies with my kiddo, right? My son, we’re going to make cookies, right? So that is totally in alignment with my goals because that creates joy. I know how to be moderate with that now. I, you know, obviously didn’t 17 years ago. So to me, it’s about, When you’re eating something that you don’t want to be or you’re eating beyond a moderate amount, because a lot of my clients, as I’m sure in your programs, it’s like, Oh, after the first or second bite, then it’s like, I’m not enjoying it.

And I’m not liking myself and I’m beating myself up. And it’s not that enjoyable. Like I feel gross afterwards. So I think that’s, to me, if you’re eating out of alignment with your goals is the definition. 

Ruth Soukup: Yeah. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. 

Ruth Soukup: Which is different than anything that I’ve, than anything that I’ve heard before be, but it really does come down to that, right?

Like, what do you want and how is what you’re eating affecting that, or in line with that? So I love that definition. So how, like, how have you rethought that? Then how do we rethink. What that looks like in our life. 

Ali Shapiro: So what I mean by safety is food is safety and it makes sense. So, safety is emotional health.

And so if you think about it, you have two kids, two girls, right? Like the time we are born, food is coupled with attachment and belonging. And when we eat food, it is, it can actually, in our adult life, stimulate attachment chemicals. So isn’t that wild? Like it is hard. Yeah. Yeah. And some of this comes from Dr.

Deborah McNamara and her book nourished, but she talked about how Maslow who I’m sure you’ve heard of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, right? Yep. So Maslow didn’t have the benefit of neuroscience and Maslow had basically like, you know, the pyramid and your basic needs were important. And then belonging.

which is emotional safety was third, but what we now know from neuroscience is that belonging is actually the most important because as a kid you can’t get your basic needs met if someone doesn’t care about you, right? Right. Like I couldn’t take care of myself until I graduated

And then the other big thing about Maslow that we need to think about with all our theorists is he actually didn’t have a great relationship with his parents. So how would he ever know what safety or belonging meant? So, we tie that together and we realize that food, when we are born, up until pretty much, you know, 20, is coupled with being taken care of.

And so, if we it, but the invisible thread behind that is the belonging. That someone cares enough about us. Yeah. Food gets coupled with this sense of, when we’re adults, I’m stressed, I’m overwhelmed, And what a lot of my clients do, as I’m sure you see this, is they isolate, right? And so, food stimulates attachment chemicals.

Oh, I feel like I’m attached to someone, but it doesn’t give us the deeper belonging that we need to rest in someone’s care, to rest in support. And so, Dr. Deborah McNamara’s mentor Dr. Gordon Newfield says, there’s nothing as addictive as something that almost works. And so it’s like, Oh, food almost works.

It doesn’t give us the inner dependence, the connection that we need. So that’s what I mean by that. And I can make this practical with Ruth. When I ask you, like, when I ask you, like, what were your best memories as a kid? Best food memories as a kid. 

Ruth Soukup: Oh, well, I’m not the best person to ask this question.

Ali Shapiro: This could be illuminating. This could be illuminating. Yeah. My, 

Ruth Soukup: like my parents were terrible cooks and. They did not cook well at all. They use the microwave for literally everything, right? Like this is a microwave in the eighties when it first came out and it was disgusting. And it was awful.

Like we had to have these family dinners. Like all I can think, all I can associate with food growing up is like negative memories of like having to sit through these gross dinners and being forced to eat all the food on my plate. Isn’t that terrible? But yeah, 

Ali Shapiro: that’s that. No, but that’s revealing of like, I couldn’t rest in, in this meal.

Right. Dr. McNamara talks about like food being a place where we can rest in, right. Where the dinner table is about, you know, so if you didn’t like the food and people were telling you to override your own sense of fullness, right. It’s like, it starts to food and belonging. Start to have a negative association, and I know your seven fear archetypes, you identify with the exi with the with the alphabets, 

Ruth Soukup: yes, 

Ali Shapiro: and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of that earliest imprint.

Ruth Soukup: Oh my gosh, this is like a counseling session right now. But even as you’re saying this, like what I was thinking actually, and what it was bringing to mind is that I think because of that growing up, right, without my parents cooking good food, like food is such a way for me to show love to my family.

And I love to cook and I love to cook for my family. And my girls, like they do, they never want to go out to eat. They always want me to cook. Like, I’m always like, let’s just go to a restaurant. No, mom, we want you to cook. We want your food. And my daughter. Is that college this year? She just went, she’s a freshman in college and she, I’ve, she’s so independent.

And I thought we are not going to see this girl until Thanksgiving. Like she’s not coming home. We’re never going to hear from her. And she has been home like three or four times already. And every time it’s mom, what are you going to cook for me? Like, can you make this into the, like, it’s all the food requests.

That’s all she wants is to just come home and eat my food. Cause you’re saying that like, that’s her cause she’s not emotional and she doesn’t show like emotion that way, but she showed that. Like, I’m having this epiphany right now, just about like, I’m telling you, like, I love doing podcasts. It’s like therapy for me every time.

Ali Shapiro: Well, and I have chills because that speaks to, because our, how we eat is speaking to how we feel and when we can’t even say it. And so she’s saying, I feel safe here. This food is giving me more. than nutrition, more than nourishing my gut health and my blood sugar, which is all important. And it’s nurturing the most important health metric that we actually have.

We know that loneliness is like as deadly as smoking now. Right. But she’s saying, I want to come home here because this is about knowing that I belong here, knowing that I’m safe. I can rest here. Whereas if I’m going to college and I don’t know about you, but like when I went to college, my eating.

Escalated because even though I only went three and a half hours away from home. I knew some people from high school. I went to a huge high school. I went to an even bigger college. I was still like, I lost my group of friends. I don’t know where I fit in, you know? And it was just like, and then it’s like, Oh my God, you have to prove yourself.

Yeah. So yeah.

Ruth Soukup: That it makes, so you can see that, right? Yeah. I’m like, ugh. My little heart is opening up for her right now. Her daughter, like I know wise, she’s so wise. So what am I gonna cook?

Ali Shapiro: But you can Okay. Oh, go ahead. Go. Yeah. So, but you can see if like you’re someone who loves cooking and all this stuff and then and say, and I’m not, so I need to like get tips from you.

But if you all of a sudden have to be put on a plan where they’re giving you shakes or this or that, like your whole way of connecting and it’s deeper than just connection. It’s like I’m communicating your love, right? Like when someone passes away, there is no words for that. What do people do?

They bring food, right? Yeah. Right. And if we think about belonging, I mean, it really connects us to the earth. And the cycles and like something bigger than us. I mean, mama earth is like the OG, you know, ancestor, right? It’s like, Oh my God, we’re all connected back to there. But so you can see how like around the holidays, if you have like big traditions and then it’s like, Oh, but I can’t do that.

Or I don’t know how to be moderate around it. The last belonging can then trigger more eating and all of this stuff. So it’s this invisible thread. Yes. Yeah, 

Ruth Soukup: I mean, as you’re even as you’re saying this, it’s so funny because I think that maybe even subconsciously one of the cool things about our program, the way that we have it structured and the food, like the recipes and everything, cause it’s all stuff that I just cook for my family.

Right. And that’s and our food is amazing, but it’s like, Big meals. And so there’s this thing, the people who are single and they’re like, what do I do with all this food? Or it’s like enough food for a week, one meal, but I’m like, no, you eat the same as your family, like sit down together, eat it together.

Your family will love this food too, because it’s nourishing. It’s, This is what my, this is what my family wants. This is the food they’re requesting. When my daughter comes home from college, this is what she’s requesting. And I think that for a lot of my clients has really helped them to like, go, yeah, my husband loves this.

My husband’s also lost weight because he just loves the food too. And my kids eat it and it’s easy and it’s, it doesn’t feel like I’m deprived because that I think is such an, a big part of the emotion of when you’re trying to be healthy or. Diet or like you’re saying the shakes that isolates you from eating or having to cook separate meals will isolate you from your family.

And I, I didn’t, I don’t think I’ve like consciously put that together, but as you’re saying that it makes so, so much sense. So tell me then, like, how does the, if there’s so much emotion, right. That’s attached to this and the safety part of this is, does that happen? No matter what type of foods you’re eating, are there some types of foods that will make it worse?

emotional eating worse or is it going to happen regardless? 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, that’s a great question. And I just want to say too, you know, you and I both run group programs. That’s part of the magic of group programs is that you have this safety and belonging of people who, and so it’s such an important piece, especially until you can kind of, you know, walk, you have to walk before you run.

So I just want to highlight that because once you see this belonging piece, you can’t unsee it. It’s like, Oh my God. It’s so cool. The question you’re asking is like, does, let me ask you this, is the question that you’re saying like, is belonging always piece of this or like, do certain foods make us feel like we belong more or?

Ruth Soukup: Well, I guess a little bit of all of it, right? Or maybe I haven’t got to the right question yet, right? Like if this is the, if this is, Really what it’s about is the emotional eating is about belonging and there’s, it’s that food is filling that sense of belonging or almost filling it, which is making it more addictive.

Are there certain foods that make it worse? Like, is it worse to have sugar or because sugar in itself is addictive? You know what I mean? Or is it does it not matter? Does it, does that make sense? I 

Ali Shapiro: think what’s interesting, this is actually coming up in my group program right now. This is a little bit more woo or energetic, but in traditional Chinese medicine.

Sugar and dairy are very yin, which is associated with the female archetype, right? And not like, or the feminine, not female, but, and I don’t want to typecast it because I don’t want it to, I don’t want people to, I don’t think people would ever really think it’s like, Oh, it’s my mother or my father. I mean, there’s some elements to that, but it’s expansive, right?

It’s expansive. And so a lot of clients will turn to dairy when they quote unquote need mothering, right? Dairy is the profile of mother’s milk, right? Which is again, if we go back to that origin, I heard your face right now. I was like, yeah, they can’t see this, they’re just listening. So there is this need to be, so.

Emotional eating essentially is repressed feeling like if we’re going to just be like cut down to the essential It’s repressed feeling and we are in a culture where especially women if you have feelings you’re too emotional You’re afraid of being too angry too bitchy too, right? Like we know that on the surface But I think maybe this is a great example of It’s not really about the food, it’s about the event that makes you feel unsafe.

But we tend to turn to sugar and dairy, which could be ice cream, it could be milk chocolate, right, whatever, when we need mothering from the quote unquote stress in our lives. But a lot of my clients who again are pretty high achieving they’ll be like, I’m with both of my kids and I just can’t handle it anymore.

And I go, I literally go in the pantry and I just find when I like I eat alone, or after everyone goes to bed at night I’m eating alone, or I come out from an event, and so what’s happening is that eating alone is telling you, again, food is always communicating the same way your daughter is like, I want to come home, I need to, I feel safe and I can rest here, is I feel deeply alone in some way.

If I’m eating alone, it’s because I feel alone. I feel separate. in some way. And it’s usually with my client who is, you know, stealing a break from her kids. I feel so alone in this parenting and maybe I feel like a bad mom because I can’t handle it right now. Right? So it’s not really about the food that she’s going to.

It’s about, I feel alone in this. Or I remember having one client, she’s a real estate, very successful real estate agent. And she’s like, I go out to these events. And it’s like, I’m very good when I’m out, you know, but like, I just don’t feel like I fit in there. Right? Again, that, that outcast. Like, so as soon as I come home, it’s like, and then once she had this language of safety, she’s like, yes, I’m safe in my house.

I survived the event. Nothing went wrong. Now, because I felt so alone there I need those, that stimulation of attachment chemicals because it is so painful to feel like you do not belong. Even if, like me, you love your rebel identity, right? It’s like, thank God I rebelled against the medical system 20 years ago.

You know, like, Yeah, we still all need to belong with our people within some way. So I think the food is more the solution. And, but your question also brings up that I think like around the holidays and things that connect us to family traditions, if we understand why we’re going to them, it’s not It’s like, Oh, this is nourishing me on a level that my soul or my spirit needs right now.

Which makes it more flexible of like, if something’s always good or something’s bad, you know, and again, to use the example of of Christmas cookies, right? I’m gonna make Christmas cookies with my son. Now, we’re probably gonna use, I love the Detoxinista. I don’t know if you’re, you know, her website, but she has this great icing that is like sweet potato, maple syrup, and coconut oil.

Yeah, she’s amazing. I use, I make her muffins for my son and he loves them. They’re like Spinach chocolate chip muffins, but they’re all healthy stuff. So he now, where are we going to use sprinkles and fun stuff? Are we going to use all the organic natural stuff? Yes, but I’m still going to make cookies with him because I did that with my mom and my sister, I want to pass that along.

So it gives you, when you start to understand the belonging piece, you can sort of understand the invisible thread to moderation, if that makes sense. Yeah, 

Ruth Soukup: it does 

Ali Shapiro: balance it 

Ruth Soukup: all. Like, and I truly believe that too, like everything in, in moderation and I’m doing, I do Christmas cookies with my girls every year too.

They did. We do those like frosted ones with all the decorations 

Ali Shapiro: buttercream too. I mean, let’s, we’re not like, 

Ruth Soukup: I think they’re gross. I’ve always thought they’re gross. I don’t that one is not a temptation for me, but they love them and they’re going to eat way too many of them. But yeah, it’s just like, so we talked about so it’s all comes down to safety.

Is there any other part, like, are there other triggers that happen? Is safety the main trigger or how does that work? 

Ali Shapiro: you and I both talk about. I mean, blood sugar and gut health matter too, right? Because if we look at safety and we expand that beyond emotions, there’s physical safety, right? Does my body feel like it has the nutrition it needs to keep the lights on and to thrive?

And so, you know, you can get into more of like, okay, well, This is why it’s better to eat dessert after dinner. So your blood sugar is more balanced, right? There can be some, and that’s kind of where it’s naturally served anyways. It’s not like you have to be the outcast because you decide you want dessert after dinner.

But I think there is a soul level. And again, this. soul, which is just spirit is kind of how we’re all one and detached, but soul is how we’re attached and it’s how we’re quirky. We’re unique. And it’s how our body soul speaks in metaphor, which is when I talk about people eating and alone, right?

That’s them saying, I feel on some individualistic level. Level, like really out of my depth, outta my comfort zone that I don’t belong in some way. And so that’s just, you can just learn that through how you’re eating, not what you’re eating, but how you’re eating. Yeah. So that’s kind of a little bit more like

It might be its own podcast episode, but I do think the, what, one of the things that I give to clients is when they start, when they’re not hungry, right? When they’re not physically hungry, it’s like the first thing I want them to ask is, why does this make sense? Instead of beating yourself up and being like, Oh, I just really want 20, you know, Christmas tree cookies.

Like, Oh, I hate myself. How do I fix this? Start by saying, why does this make sense? And all of a sudden you realize that you’re going to that for a really brilliant reason. We all need to feel like we belong. We all need to feel like we’re, we have that emotional safety. And then one of the first things that I have.

People ask is like, what’s at the tail end of my food noise? And the four triggers are, am I feeling tired, right? Am I feeling anxious, which is uncertainty from the outside. So we know, for example, COVID emotional eating skyrocketed because people were like, what is happening? What’s going on? And people, a lot of belonging was fractured during that time because of different ideas of what was happening and who was masking, who wasn’t, right?

It was just a very contentious time. So. But people also, you know, I’m thinking of my clients. I mean they have So much uncertainty in their own lives, right? Like your daughter just left for college. Like that’s a huge transition transitions bring up tons of uncertainty and it’s a lot of time when people fall off track.

So am I feeling uncertain or anxious, uncertain? The other big one is inadequacy. So the TAI, T A I, where do I feel not enough too much? And this is where the uncertainty is coming from the inside of the house. The call is happening. It’s what people think of as self doubt. I feel too much. I feel not enough.

Maybe I don’t want to eat. everything my family’s telling me, and then I don’t want to finish my plate. And especially as kids, just how we develop, we make it about us being wrong, rather than like, whoa, maybe people shouldn’t be forcing us to overeat, right? And then the last one. The fish 

Ruth Soukup: in the microwave.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. It should never be cooked in the microwave, ever. Right? No rubbery. Yeah. I’m just thinking of anyone reading this outside of the U. S., they’re like, Oh my god! The horror! 

Ruth Soukup: I know. It’s a trauma, I’m telling you. 

Ali Shapiro: I know. This is a side note, but I worked in Paris in my, in the corporate life. I worked in Paris for a while and I was obsessed with dieting and I would eat peanut butter and jelly on rice cakes and the French women would be like, what is that, Ali?

You know, like, and they were like pitying me and looking back, I pity myself, but I was like, no, this is like healthy. And they were just like horrified by like rice cakes with peanut butter and jelly. And then the L is loneliness. And this is like, this is just, we feel separate and alone. In a way that ultimately we feel like our needs don’t matter, whether it’s our appetite, whether it’s the needs that make us feel so alone, etc.

So, I think people can start to, and if you think about those tail triggers, deregulated blood sugar would cause, will cause those too. Right? It’s like, okay, I feel exhausted when I’m crashing. I feel anxious anxiety from crashing blood sugar. If you don’t know what foods work for you, how to, your blood sugar, and you’re so hungry and have cravings, you start to feel like your body’s broken, that you’re inadequate versus like, you’re just not eating the right foods for you.

And then loneliness, whether it’s, you know, I don’t like what my family’s eating or I went to this event and felt so lonely. It felt on some level that like, I didn’t feel significant in those experiences. So, and Again, we can feel that when our blood sugar is crashing as well, 

Ruth Soukup: or when your gut is unhealthy.

And especially with the serotonin, like all of these things, the anxiety and the loneliness and the depression, as you were talking about all contributes to that as well. So it’s all, it’s a weird physical, emotional connection that really does. Work together. And it sounds like it makes it a lot worse, right?

Like there’s an emotional component, but it’s not all emotional. There is physiological reasons why you’re feeling worse or why you’re feeling more tired, why you’re feeling more anxious, why you’re feeling more lonely. That is like, this is a little bit mind blowing. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I mean, I tell people to think about it as like an infinity loop.

Like we will we separate physiology and psychology, but they’re actually just in this feedback loop because, so connected. Yeah, I mean, if you even think about gut health, like if you feel really alone, like think about after COVID and you feel really alone and then you start isolating more, right? Your, we know that your gut microbiome is so much healthier when it’s around diversity, around other people.

Yes. And this is why all of us were like extra sick the first couple of years we came out of lockdowns, right? I mean, you’re in Florida. You guys had a different experience probably. Not lockdowns. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But us in the Northeast, we did. And so it was like, oh my God, you know, our microbiomes were not as healthy because we were so isolated.

So that’s just one. Sample of how everything is interconnected. We’re meant to be together. We are tribal people. You know, I always think of like, I don’t know if you’ve ever watched animal planet, but you can just feel the psychological terror. Like when one of the animals gets like separated from their pack, you’re like, especially like a little kid.

I’m like no, like go where there’s people, you don’t go where you’re hurt. Cause I would feel that way. If I was like sitting on the condo by myself, you know, it’s like, You can’t survive alone. And so, so yeah it’s all kind of saying the same thing, but it’s just about what entry point you come into it.

Ruth Soukup: Yeah. So, so interesting. So can you share a little bit about truth with food? That’s your program that you started and what does that look like and how does, like, how does, how do people get out of this? infinity loop. If it’s an infinity loop, what 

Ali Shapiro: do you, how do you stop the cycle? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Great question. So truth with food, it’s a six month process because it takes that long for a holistic solution, but essentially what we do is we look at the story. We all have a story about how good we, how we have to be good to belong. And so what we do on the very first session is we set up goals in a very process oriented way to allow for this flexibility that we talk about.

It’s not rigid rules of like, like if you wanted to lose 30 pounds, it’d be like, well, who do you have to be to lose 30 pounds? Okay. I want to be someone who has more compassion for myself when I fall off track so that I don’t do check it. You know, I don’t know if we can swear on this, but that’s what we call it in truth.

We’re like the Chuck E. Everett eating, you know, and so, but the reason we can’t make progress with these goals is there’s a story that if we weren’t to do our bad habits, which are actually protective, it brings up all this emotion and this story of like, I’m being bad this way. 

Ruth Soukup: So 

Ali Shapiro: we, I, we uncover that story in the first session and then we, and then that builds on the second session, which is how are we more conscious of this story?

So our story is unconscious, not because it’s dark and deep, but just because your body’s always taking shortcuts, right? Like I tell my clients, like if you had to understand what a shower and a toothbrush was every morning, like it would take like a long time to get out of the door. Like you just have to know, I go shower this or that.

So our stories are always scanning. Am I being good? Am I bad? Right? What does other people think? And again, that’s a healthy developmental spot. We need that the first couple of decades of our life. So people care about us. But the way that we often can recognize our story is kind of, through a cognitive lens of like, I’m behind with my calories.

I’m behind with losing weight, or I’m missing out on good foods Or catastrophizing or, you know, I know you talk a lot about people pleasing and I talk about how that’s actually a protective strategy. So like, Oh my God, I’m disappointing people. Or if I’m not deprived, I’m not doing it right. You know, all of these things.

So I teach people on the second lesson, how to like more access their story on an everyday conscious level. And then what we do is, and then that leads into. Okay, how do I start to change this? And we call it self authoring and developmental psychology. So here’s what I learned was good, right? And most of us as women have learned overall, a strategy of restriction is good emotionally.

So don’t take up too much space. Don’t add more stress. Just do it by yourself. You know, all that kind of stuff. So we started to say, What? 

Ruth Soukup: Don’t put anybody out. Yes, 

Ali Shapiro: Yes. And that is just like an emotional restriction strategy, right? . So then we start in a very methodical way, experimenting with, okay, where is it safe to start to try to show up differently and teaching people how to do that.

Because when you’re stressed and I’m asking you to show up differently in stress situations, your old story will just kind of. take you back to the habits you’ve always done. So that each, so that is about three months of the program is like really learning how to like self author and it’s what we call self author belonging.

So it’s like your example with, I love to cook homemade Meals for my family like my family may have done it this way and I can still connect with them on other ways But this is how I’m gonna do it, right? You and I are both entrepreneurs, right? I mean, I love my parents. My parents were city school teachers, but it’s like I chose a different path of that You know, I mean, I’m essentially a teacher just online but you know what?

I mean, but like I had to do it my own way right So it’s really learning, like, how do I want to show up in these everyday situations? And so then, the second half of the program is learning about blood sugar and gut health. And I do it more through an experimental lens, so I use nervous systems, parasympathetic, sympathetic for discernment, around what’s the best diet for people but it’s more self authored.

So it’s people wanting to want to make the choice because they’ve connected, you know, okay, if I eat this breakfast, oh my God, my ADHD is better. My moods are better. My cravings are gone. This is life changing versus me giving a plan. And so that’s how interesting. 

Ruth Soukup: Yeah, because there’s so much psychology that comes into it first before you’re even talking about food.

Ali Shapiro: Yeah, the food stuff is open as like the content is already open and I teach on it the second half, but everyone comes in a different place. Some people are like I can’t even look at the food right now. Like, I know this is emotional. I don’t know what’s happening. And this is where my focus needs to be.

And some people are like, Oh my God, but I’m hungry all the time. So we, by the end of three months, everyone’s ready to look at it. And they’re also more open to, Hey, maybe this idea of what I thought was good. isn’t really good, right? Like a lot of people, I don’t know if in your group, but I have a lot of people who have tried to be vegetarian and nothing against vegetarian, but it just doesn’t work for everyone.

Ruth Soukup: Right. So 

Ali Shapiro: once they start getting a more 

Ruth Soukup: anti vegetarian after being a vegetarian for 28 years, Nope. And here’s the podcast on why I’m no longer a vegetarian. 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. I, you know, 20 years ago, cancer survivors were told like be vegetarian. And I was had so many cravings, hunger. I mean, Acne issues, IBS, depression, all this stuff.

However, it does work for some people. And so, so people then are more open to like, okay, maybe I can actually depend on my body instead of listening to all the conflicting, because you know nutrition information is so conflicting. Yes. And so that’s what the program is. And it’s 12 group calls with me and then I have I have truth certified coaches.

So I certified people at my methodology. So people also get small group attention and it’s a really small, it’s a smaller group. So everyone can get, you know, individual attention, but have the benefit of the group. And I joke, it’s basically I mean, the quality of people who come, it’s amazing, and we make it a safe container and safety isn’t like, oh, everyone has to think the same or whatever, but it’s just like, we don’t give people advice, you trust that people can figure this out with the right questions But I joke that it’s a container to practice being quote unquote needy, right?

Like people, anytime women have needs, they feel like they’re being needy. So it’s just a, it’s a safe space to practice that. And the group is I think 50 percent of why people get like the life changing results. I mean, we have people who have binged for 20, 30 years, No one who’s in an active eating disorder, I don’t rec, like, that would not be, Truths With Food would not be the right place for people with that, but people who have recovered from eating disorders and are still struggling now with health issues or whatever because they had to have a period of, you know, not paying attention or people are just like, I’ve hit a big period of uncertainty and my food stuff has come back.

It’s not quite as bad but it’s a lot of people who are ready just to go to the next level with their personal development and the safety that helps with is just, It’s just incredible that the people that amazing, 

Ruth Soukup: it’s amazing. And I, I don’t know if you feel this way, but like, I’ve done lots of different things in my 15 plus years as an entrepreneur.

And I think that helping women get healthy and transform their lives through health has been by far the most rewarding thing that I’ve ever done. Like it is so. Insanely amazing because of your, because you’re so right. It’s not just food. It’s not just people come to me because they’re like, I just want to get skinny.

Right. Like, but you, then you got it. You still got to deal with the head stuff. Cause that’s never going to go away. And if you’re not dealing with that, then it’s. It’s been, it’s, and so it has to be kind of the whole package, but then you see the transformation that happens when you start to empower yourself and those two things work so hand in hand.

So I love it. So Ali, you’re doing amazing work. Congratulations. Where can we find you online? 

Ali Shapiro: Yeah. Yeah. And so just, if anyone is interested, Trista food is launching in January. So January 2nd through the 22nd, we’re doing a free event we’re doing around how to stop the quick fix cycle because it essentially leaves you worse off.

And so that’s on January 8th about how to, how we set goals and truth with food. So that workshop will be how to set goals for sustainable results. And it is, like you said, it’s about the psychology.

You can also find me at my website, alishapiro.com. And then I have my own podcast, Insatiable, which people can check out as well.